I'm looking for a table under $3500, not vintage. For a straight tonearm the accuracy of the headshell offset angle is very important for the lowest possible tracking error and unfortunately not all are created equal in this regard. I also own another VPI HW19 fitted with an SME Series III, another "S" shaped arm and have owned this one since 1989. Regardless of whether you select a straight arm or curved arm, proper setup is key. I have a Thorens TD 160 which has been my main turntable since 1976 with V15-Vmrx cartricge. So do the worlds best turntables. I dare say cost in manufacturing will also play a roll. I replaced 100% of the house wring a few years ago, and had to do considerable structural work on this house. I guess I could compare my straight fixed headshell & my curved removable headshell arm wands on my EA-10 tonearm and see if there is much difference in sound. I read Robert Greene's review of the SL1200G in TAS last night. In a high fidelity arm, the needle will "overhang" the spindle by 1/2" or so. IF YOU JOINED ON JUNE 25TH TO JULY 18TH, GO. I disassembled the arm and discovered that the yellow earth wire was not connected on the tonearm side and only to the eart stud on the turntable. The GAE has a double gimball bearing arrangement. Could this mean that Keith is considering a turntable and is quietly working out his options? But most of the main points were made. by analogous 10 Feb 2008 16:27, Post So, why is it that the majority of modern tonearms are straight? Any shelf construction tips would be appreciated as I'm an electrician, not a carpenter. Sckott Hand Tighten Only. StereoNET (Australia) is part of an international network of publications owned wholly by Sound Media Group (Australia). What's the difference between a straight or S shaped tonearm? It is the quality of workmanship, bearing and materials that make the difference. Straight Tone Arm Vs. Curved Tone Arm. With DVS, it doesn't really matter that much. Some claim the straight arm wears out records more quickly, but is better for DJ scratching, as it holds a groove better. By contrast, some claim S-shaped arms are more prone to skipping but don't wear as hard on the vinyl and produce a cleaner sound. Regardless of whether you select a straight arm or curved arm, proper setup is key. I appreciate whatever advice you have to offer. CJO, I was just browsing through and came upon your post. by nubie1 10 Feb 2008 05:26, Post Thanks a lot guys, I just googled a few different tonearms and only just noticed that in all of them, the headshell is offset. As you guys said. I Hi David This is just speculation on my part but I think that S shaped arms probably evolved when all headshells were of the removable variety. It The shape of the tonearm is important in so far as it affects the torsional rigidity of the tonearm. Question, how much would i need to psend to make a real upgrade of my current setup, and/or is there another path I need to consider? The vapor barrier plastic (6-8 mil) comes in rolls and once you position it you just start rolling and at the end turn around move over and roll your way back. It has a Technics style "s" shaped tonearm with belt drive. TT manufacturers began making them because the convenience of removable headshells allow for quick cartridge swaps and easy setting of the offset angle. Curved configuration will give you more elbow space to share with someone sitting next to you. Once you have a cartridge mounted, you have established a fixed relationship between the arm/needle and the platter/LP. S-Curved tonearm. This is why manufacturers like SME and Kuzma use tapered arm wands and Continuum uses the cigar shape. The two bends add rigidity to vibration compared to a straight tube and flexural waves will be attenuated. A Rega P5maybe! Not sure who thought of it first (Conti or Spotheim) but that point is irrelevant to this discussion. You mentioned a record vacuum cleaning system. Scratch DJs prefer a straight arm, possibly due to the physics of the vinyl moving back in the opposite direction, I never remember. Straight configurations will take less space width wise. As does the Basis Vector. And that's the reason "DJ" applications use a straight tone arm. Either way, you have a lot of excellent choices to consider. Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by PBo, Aug 6, 2010. Maybe the wise old hands can give me some advice. To get the right offset angle, the arm was bent in a fashion that allows a straight headsell to line up correctly. I think you are confusing the issue. It is also problematic to make bold statements about bearing configurations. This tone arm is a big improvement in tracking and anti skating. By A wall mounted shelf would help if you can find a load bearing wall that goes to a major support in the basement or the crawl space. Lathes and turntables are two totally different beasts. If my fading memory still serves me well enough, my recollection is that the 'S' arm shape was aimed at modifying the resonant frequency of the arm - where the straight arm was favoured by those that felt that the lower mass was more important. June 7, 2010 in General Hi-Fi Discussion. For shielding? For LP's I have recently cleaned, I don't need to wet clean them again for awhileI just put 'em on the turntable and dry-brush them with the Hunt. An entry level Dual from the '70's, a Denon DP-52F (which I still use in my office I think its just wrapped up as a xmas pressie. The SpJ tonearm as used on the La Luce Centoventi turntable uses the secondary pivot to stabilize the arm. Thread starter DJ Insyder; Start date Apr 15, 2001; D. DJ Insyder New member. Sound Media Group Pty Ltd. All Rights Reserved. Since it has been a couple of months, I don't know if you have solved your dust bunny problem, but here's what I do to LP's that habitually offend. I found a homeless man living under a single-woman's house onceno kidding. (The solder connections at the bottom of the arm to the interlink to the phono stage came adrift). Cartridge/Phono stage2.) Once you've done a little "dirty work" under the house I think you will be in good shape. Press J to jump to the feed. I'm no mathmetician or tonearm designer, but that has to be total nonsense. Sorry to disappoint you guys but properties like stiffness depend greatly on type of material, mechanical properties of the material, length to diameter ratio, you can't just say J shape better than straight pipe or vice versa. In my experience other desirable features when considering a tonearm include: a single unbroken run of cable between cartridge pins and phono preamp input connectors; low friction bearings; proper damping; ability to adjust every parameter to optimise VTA, VTF, azimuth, anti-skate, overhang, alignment. I am reminded of the wisdom of Bertrand Russell, "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.". Topic for today: Straight or curved tonearms on turntables? I own an SL1200GAE and have done so for about a year now. i love the look of straight arms. The shape of the armwand is but one important variable in tonearm design. I plan to use the CARDAS tone arm wire as it is quite affordable. Try and relocate the wires if you can. Sound Media Group Pty Ltd. All Rights Reserved. By Straight is generally more used for scratching, but the differences in sound quality aren't super pronounced. They may not be suitable for your installation, because it depends on how well isolated the table location might be. So, who first promulgated that thought, Bertrand Russell or William Butler Yeats? As an Amazon Associate, we may earn commissionsfrom qualifying purchases from Amazon.com. by kitemap 10 Feb 2008 10:01, Post You can have S, J, straight, flat floppy NAD, or what ever arm shape, but the stylus is at a point and angled in a specific direction, and that what matters. "In the golden age of vinyl back in the 70s selling at Tech Hifi, Lafayette and Radio Shack I always levitated to tables with straight arms. HERE. It's the angle of the cartridge and the pivot point of the arm that count. Either can sound very good if matched to the rest and set up properly I believe but personally Ive always had better luck with straight tonearms. The reason you would choose to buy a turntable with a straight arm as opposed to a curved arm is for scratch control. A straight tone arm has a completely different position, angle and range of grip and is set-up so DJs can scratch with high precision without the worry of skipping records. Not much really if you're DJing. Like many trends in turntable design, the bends give no appreciable advantage in resonance control. My question was prompted by the TAS review of the Technics SL-1200G in their current issue. You could also consider doing the same thing with a mid-priced Rega or other non-suspended table. As far as my phono stage goes I don't think it's a problem. by Paladin 10 Feb 2008 18:31, Post It is not whether the arm is straight, J shaped or S shaped which makes the difference. The weather has been good right now, but it still seems like a spring project to me. I have not found a good substitute for great bearings and a massive platter. Light weight straight tone arms have the increased risk of unwanted resonance due to standing resonance waves along the entire length. I think the best way is to try the Audio Craft AC3000MC / AC4000MC with multiply armtubes of the different shapes. [/url]http://www.helices.org/auDio/t..venson.pdf, http://www.helices.org/auDio/t..erwald.pdf, http://www.helices.org/auDio/turnTable/bauer.pdf. Does anyone know of this type of I dont think it makes any difference,its all about the design of the arm. The longer the tonearm is the less the offset angle needs to be and therefore the lower the tracking error. Also, if you are a mix DJ stuck with straight arms and you don't want to put undue wear on your vinyl you can just angle the carts in the headstock. Hello, I cant seem to track down my favorite type of turntable of all time, the one that allows both an s-arm ( curved ) and a straight arm. Hi, for those bros have played enough with turntables: is there significant difference between the straight arm design vs the curved arm (J-shape, like the SL1200) in terms of sound quality? In a scratch DJ arm, the needle will "underhang" or come up short about 3/8" behind the spindle. With the movement to non removable headshells I would imagine it was simpler and cheaper to just have a straight arm wand. But as you say, I should only have to do it once, and doing it will have benefits beyond the sonic variety. Curved configurations in most cases cannot be reconfigured. by Abandonflip 10 Feb 2008 19:07, Post Then I would put the patio block down on top of the vapor barrier and do your supports as you see fit. What turntable are you going to get Keith? A real straight dj tonearm has horrible tracking error. What "game" was changed by Rega pick-up arms? Many record players, especially high-end models, offer adjustable tracking pressure that, when set Tracking was not nearly as reliable with massive S arm tables and carts. by Paladin 10 Feb 2008 16:20, Post In either case you can buy adjustable floor supports that are threaded and can be vertically turn-adjusted (cranked) to hit the bottom of the joist and stabilize it. This is just speculation on my part but I think that S shaped arms probably evolved when all headshells were of the removable variety. HERE, TO CHECK THE WINNERS LIST. Then I realized I had it backwards, so maybe that extra mass on the outside caused some torque/rotation in the arm and "rotated" the needle in such a way that it was able to more forcefully push on the outer facing groove and resist the skating force of the inner facing groove. All the different shapes and designs of arms try to minimize tracking errors across the playing arc. Type: straightline tracking airbearing arm and turntable Effective arm mass: 10 grams Motor: belt driven, DC, 33/45 rpm Dimensions: 18.7** x 19.7** x 18.26** Weight: 50 lbs. Same reason I believe behind long tonearms and parallel tracking tonearms. What brf and Lewm said is correct and now add helomech. Case in point, the SME Series III is an "S" arm which does not have this feature. This creates torque on the pivot, and that torque is the reason for anti-skate. Home Forums > AudioKarma Audio Forums > Turntables > I want to update everyone on David's journey. On an axe head, the poll is there specifically to act as a counter balance to the bit. As mentioned above, straight tonearms have the headshell offset, so its not realy straight. Going from there to the turntable, they attract some dust from the air because of the static the VPI cleaning generates. My question: What are the advantages/disadvantages of each, sonic or otherwise? As you no doubt know, the S-shape is just so the headshell, where the cartridge is parallel to the sides of the headshell, fits. My apologies. The blackness of the backgrounds was remarkable to me. Is one tone arm better than the other with tracking regarding a straight design versus a curved design? StereoNET (Australia) is part of an international network of publications owned wholly by Sound Media Group (Australia). The last time I looked,most high end tables come with a straight arm. As some have already noted, s shaped arms tend be higher mass designs. I believe the single unbroken run of wire is great in theory, but popy**** in reality. I would not say that straight or S shape is per se the determining factor regarding sound quality. Discussion in 'Turntables' started by coppercitymt, Aug 28, 2012. I must have been blind or something! Ideally one continuous length from cartridge pins to RCA plugs. http://www.tubebooks.org/Books/intro_RDH4.pdf, http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=vinyl&m=650079, Forum Policies, Rules, and Terms of Service. Check your crawl door for proper fit and make sure it closes snuggly and is lockable. Hi Keith In a pivoted tonearm, the offset angle of the cartridge and the length of the tonearm is what determines the tracking error, not the actua Straight Arm Wear! Sound Media Group Pty Ltd Take a look at this! He has made great progress in his recovery. But in general S and J shaped arms tend to be heavy and straight ones light. S arms were, among other things, an attempt to add length to the tonearm, since most tonearms are limited in length because they need to fit inside the space that is occupied by the turntable when the dust cover is closed. SME is making some very long straight tonearms for their high end turntables - over 233 mm. I am well aware of my crawl space. (Note: there is no apparent damage/mildew on the LP jackets.) Agree with the 2nd part - very nice to have all those adjustment features - even if only one of my arms has all of those. The tone arm angle is called offset angle One of my theories is that 20 years ago when I lived in someone's basement during college, perhaps the vinyl picked up some mildew? Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. I currently use an Exact 2 in my Rega. But then again you could fill a book with stuff I don't know. by Paladin 10 Feb 2008 19:09, Post An S shape has the advantage of resonance reduction. I had never imagined such a thing until I tore the bathroom apart for a major remodel. by JaS 10 Feb 2008 10:18, Post My small dilemma is that I want to get a turntable like a Denon or a Kenwood to match my system. As mentioned above, straight tonearms have the headshell offset, so its not realy straight. I dare say cost in manufacturing will also play a roll. BradOlson, Jan 8, 2003 #2. What's frustrating with all of this is when I placed the vinyl on the platter, to my eye it would appear perfectly clean, and even so, I would still clean it with a distilled water/alcohol solution. So, Warwick, are you saying that an S shaped arm would have more torsional rigidity but at the expense of more mass? I've never really been able to I always felt that the curved arms were more 'mellow' and straight ones more 'clinical', but it probably had more to do with the cartridges people chose, I never heard any truly objective testing. Thanks. Straight gives you better tracking (needle stays in groove) at the expense of worse record wear. What's the official name for those turntables with a curved arm? If you need new vents they are about $15 each at Home Depot, are a push-in fit the same size as a standard cement block, and have a bi-metallic thermostat that closes the louvers when it gets cold keeping your floor warmer in the winter and with the vapor barrier will keep the ground moisture from entering your sub-floor. Do you edit your mixes after youve finished? Price: $21,000. that is one of the reasons. You, I believe, are talking about straight, non-offset arms used for scratching. Santa will bring me a record vacuum cleaning system this year or there is going to be trouble. Straight is generally more used Platter/bearing system3.) If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. All of these turntables have had straight tonearms. Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 Next > coppercitymt New Member. And the electronics sit against a load bearing wall, so finding good support isn't a problem. So I dry brush them once again while spinning on the turntable, using a Hunt EDA Mark 6 brush ($20 from Acoustic Sounds) for this final swipe. You may have to register before 130230-6882 Curved and Straight Tonearms Over the last 40 years I have owned 3 turntables. by JaS 10 Feb 2008 18:08, Post I know the answer, there is an important reason! by Guest 10 Feb 2008 18:53, Post Aquateen, Jan 7, 2003 #1. The turntable issue is more one of should you upgrade your phono stage first. In short, these are two superb turntables and both sound terrific. I know S shaped arms have more mass if all else is equal as the curve means the wand is longer (but not longer in terms of effective length). Roy Gandy, designer and manufacturer of the game-changing Rega pickup arms,proselytizes that it is a straightwandwhich can be made stiffer than an S-shaped one. Jake and Wolster - can't a man ask a simple question without everyone speculating about his analog plans! The Vestax arm is short, thus has no overhang. Is there a trick to it? However, it does mean that the "pull" of the stylus in the groove is now being applied at an angle to the pivot point, instead of directly. Yes, I am interested in your thoughts. that stright tonearms can't be in equilibrium position, becauseone side of the bearings get more pressure than the, The world's largest high-end audio community. Unless your system has great recolving power and you are using at least a $1K phono stage from Mr. Fremmer's recommendations, the "s" shape of tone arm may not be the biggest problem. It is necessary for the tonearm to have as little flex as possible. http://www.djtutor.com/repairs http://www.djtutor.com/affairsGive your opinion please. The Graham features VTA adjustment on-the-fly. here is some reading for you Keith regarding tracking errors. Raul, based on what I have learned over the last few years, I would also prefer a fixed pivot. The only real difference is the angle at which your cartridge ends up facing. Basic physics is at work here. If the azimuth cannot be fixed by the limited headshell adjustment, you really need to return the cart you bought, you have a cartridge problem not a tonearm problem. Just discovered mono split mixing and its a game changer. Let me see if I can make a cave man drawing to show you. I am sure the VPI and Regas in this price range are the same. then you would love my double s grado signature tonearm. Most DJ arms are "underhung" to aid in scratching, whereas straight tonearm with an offset headshell used for accurate audio replay are overhung. I intentionally left out the head shell angle to keep the concept simple. there are perfectly straight arms, but they're mostly used for DJ scratching. Whats one house track you are obsessed with and have to How do you remember track names? I am not sure which of these two TTs is the better of the two. ", Sound Media Group Pty Ltd As far as I know there isn't a great difference between a straight, S or J tonearm. www.musicdirect.com has many isolation platforms, but the heavy foot-falls will require more than that. At your price point, you can consider going a refurbished Sota and start looking for a good condition Graham 2.2 arm or similar. 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